 OnlineCarStereo.com
The best and biggest selection of mobile audio/stereo, multimedia/navigation and accessories at the lowest prices! Kenwood, Pioneer, Rockford Fosgate, JVC, Sony, Clarion, Jensen, Infinity, Kicker and more...
|
Car Audio Black Friday Sales! |
| Author |
| Thread |
 |
|
 | | | |
SINTORMAN
New Member
|
Your aren't using logic
I was basing my arguement off of your previous statements saying, "true cars were made of alot better metal back in the 70's than today". Today we need better grounds back then you could just ground to the frame. So you see my point is based on your point. If your point is flawed then well... i guess i am wrong as well.
Report this post to a moderator
|
 02-01-2011 05:40 PM |
| | |
 |
oldtimer
Member
|
Logic
Im not using logic I belive a few others have posted on this topic,so im not going to try and take credit for thier post, but go back and read your own 1st post you start out your no expert etc then you go into what you know,like kj put it, on low power u dont need adding anything but when you increase power you have to increase the big 3 why because of poor grounds no but because auto electrical systems were and still are not desighned to handle that much Hence H.O. alt's Increased size wire from the hot post on the alt to the Hot post on the battery, same with the grounds,to handle huge power increases u have to increase your grounding as well,but a dedicated wire is not the answer im sorry if you agree or not we can agree to diagree it's all good but btw how many compitions have you been in or won I dont remember you adressing that one.??????? Oh and not to forget lanarian's post about checking the dedicated wire after a lil while.............
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-01-2011 06:04 PM |
| | |
|
SINTORMAN
New Member
|
I clear this up...
I do see the big3 as necessary. Although I would call it the Big2. The positive to the alt, totally necessary. The negative to the engine block, totally necessary. The ground to the frame unnecessary with a dedicated ground. And by the way if I said that anything else wasn't necessary I was not including the big"3". I do see that and a HO alt as very necessary.
And to lanarian. The purpose of a dedicated ground is so that there is no other ground between the amp and battery. There would be no other path of least resistance (hence dedicated).
And for the Competitions part. You don't have to win competitions to know about electronics/car audio. Thats like saying you have to be in the Olympics to know how to run. I listen to my bass for enjoyment not for competition.
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-01-2011 07:10 PM |
| | |
|
oldtimer
Member
|
Crystal
Well I have to hand it you, Because you finnally naied it One man who would rather play in the super bowl than to sit in the stands and watch it, which is fine like I said earlier we agree to disagree on something and's it's nothing personal just two different opions np let them subs hit ..........
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-01-2011 11:10 PM |
| | |
SINTORMAN
New Member
|
Great Discussion
Even though It may not have appeared this way but I do appreciate every comment. So thanks for the replies. And don't worry I will let my subs slam.
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-01-2011 11:15 PM |
| | |
|
Ianarian
Member
|
Sintor- I hear what you are saying and more, I am glad to see that you are thinking. The problem is that in general, you couldnt say that a isolated ground is useful. I know that the chassis will serve the purpose for my system way better than the IG can. Current flows from neg to pos right,....well that means that the largest current carrying section of the circuit will be the neg leg. From the amp, whats left over after efficiency takes toll, flows back to the battery. My system would char the 1/0 cable in time. Thus, increasing the resistance. The next consideration would be voltage drop. We are already losing something like 1/3v from a 12ft run. So doubling the circuit length may be more of a loss than we can afford.
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-02-2011 11:46 PM |
| | |
|
KJM01
Member
|
RE: I clear this up...
quote:
Originally posted on 02-01-2011 by SINTORMAN
I do see the big3 as necessary. Although I would call it the Big2. The positive to the alt, totally necessary. The negative to the engine block, totally necessary. The ground to the frame unnecessary with a dedicated ground. And by the way if I said that anything else wasn't necessary I was not including the big"3". I do see that and a HO alt as very necessary.
And to lanarian. The purpose of a dedicated ground is so that there is no other ground between the amp and battery. There would be no other path of least resistance (hence dedicated).
And for the Competitions part. You don't have to win competitions to know about electronics/car audio. Thats like saying you have to be in the Olympics to know how to run. I listen to my bass for enjoyment not for competition.
I feel that the two most important parts of the big three are the grounds from the batt. and frame. The batt to alt. wire is not as important cause an alt can only put out so many amps to begin with.But with a H/O alt yes all three wires are a necessity
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-03-2011 09:54 AM |
| | |
|
oldtimer
Member
|
Big 3
Hi KJ, The reason
I use the third wire even with a stock alt is they use either 8 or 10 ga wire from the factory's so if u increase the wire from the alt to the Battery you will see a increase in amp performance and less dimming.
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-03-2011 02:00 PM |
| | |
|
SINTORMAN
New Member
|
lanarian
I do see what your saying but the difference I am guessing you system is going to be pulling a lot more than mine. I will be at 2k watts max and the reason I am going with the 0 gauge wire is because I will be adding a second battery because my stock isn't that great. The second reason is because I am putting this system in a pt cruiser which aren't known for a real strong chassis. So yes you are right if we were dealing with a system like yours (which I assume is a lot bigger) but I think in my situation the IG will be ideal. Plus not to mention buying wire from online is a lot cheaper in larger lengths.
BTW: IG means independent ground, correct?
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-03-2011 02:11 PM |
| | |
sicaudio
Senior Member
|
Sint
if you are doing any system in a "Chrysler PT Cruiser"
you need to do what is called the BIG 4... do a little googling and you will see why ;)
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-03-2011 02:33 PM |
| | |
SINTORMAN
New Member
|
Not sure about the big 4
From what I saw the 4th is a wire from the chassis to the frame. Is that correct? Because that really doesn't make sense. If it is then I will not need it because I am running a dedicated ground. So I won't even need a wire from the negative to the chassis/frame.
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-03-2011 03:19 PM |
| | |
sicaudio
Senior Member
|
it is because they have horrendous ground issues from the factory even w/o a system ;)
90% of all electrical component failures on them are attributed to bad factory grounds.
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-03-2011 05:02 PM |
| | |
SINTORMAN
New Member
|
exactly
If you read the previous posts I have said that I will be running a dedicated ground from the negative terminal on the battery to the amp so I will not need to upgrade the grounding of the frame.
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-03-2011 05:08 PM |
| | |
sicaudio
Senior Member
|
I read it
was just giving you my professional opinion ;)
that ground dedicated or not will not solve the issues they are well known for...it will work, but it is a bandaid is all. the correct way is to add all 3 grounds and never worry about it again :)
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-03-2011 05:14 PM |
| | |
|
sicaudio
Senior Member
|
couple quick links for ya...
www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/general-turbo-discussions/28280-ground-wires-body-front-struts.html
http://www.ptcruiserlinks.com/forum/general-pt-cruiser-discussions/13701-ground-strap.html
and a lil excerpt:
From page 8A-6 of the 2002 service manual:
Factory-installed radio noise suppression is accomplished
primarily through circuitry or devices that
are integral to the factory-installed radios, audio
power amplifiers and other on-board electrical components
such as generators, wiper motors, blower
motors, and fuel pumps that have been found to be
potential sources of RFI or EMI. External radio noise
suppression devices that are used on this vehicle to
control RFI or EMI, and can be serviced, include the
following:
² Ground straps - This length of braided ground
strap has an eyelet terminal connector crimped to
each end. They are located in various locations on
the vehicle.
² Radio Noise Suppression Capacitor - This
component is attached to the throttle control support
bracket.
² Resistor-type spark plugs - This type of spark
plug has an internal resistor connected in series
between the spark plug terminal and the center electrode
to help reduce the production of electromagnetic
radiation that can result in radio noise.
OPERATION
There are two common strategies that can be used
to suppress Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) and
ElectroMagnetic Interference (EMI) radio noise. The
first suppression strategy involves preventing the
production of RFI and EMI electromagnetic signals
at their sources. The second suppression strategy
involves preventing the reception of RFI and EMI
electromagnetic signals by the audio system components.
The use of braided ground straps in key locations
is part of the RFI and EMI prevention strategy.
These ground straps ensure adequate ground paths,
particularly for high current components such as
many of those found in the starting, charging, ignition,
engine control and transmission control systems.
An insufficient ground path for any of these
high current components may result in radio noise
caused by induced voltages created as the high current
seeks alternative ground paths through components
or circuits intended for use by, or in close
proximity to the audio system components or circuits.
Preventing the reception of RFI and EMI is accomplished
by ensuring that the audio system components
are correctly installed in the vehicle. Loose,
corroded or improperly soldered wire harness connections,
improperly routed wiring and inadequate audio
system component grounding can all contribute to
the reception of RFI and EMI. A properly grounded
antenna body and radio chassis, as well as a shielded
antenna coaxial cable with clean and tight connections
will each help reduce the potential for reception
of RFI and EMI.
ENGINE GROUND STRAP
(1) Install strap and bolt to strut tower. Tighten
bolt to 12 N·m (105 in. lbs.).
(2) Install strap and bolt to engine cylinder head.
Tighten bolt to 28 N·m (21 ft. lbs.).
(3) Connect battery negative cable.
HOOD HINGE GROUND STRAP
(1) Install strap and bolt to fender. Tighten bolt to
4 N·m (35 in. lbs.).
(2) Install strap and bolt to hood. Tighten bolt to 4
N·m (35 in. lbs.).
(3) Connect battery negative cable.
MUFFLER GROUND STRAP
(1) Install strap and bolt to rear floor pan. Tighten
bolt to 8 N·m (75 in. lbs.).
(2) Install strap and bolt to muffler. Tighten bolt to
8 N·m (75 in. lbs.).
(3)
RADIO NOISE SUPPRESSION CAPACITOR
(1) Install capacitor and bolt.
(2) Connect electrical harness connector to capacitor.
(3) Connect battery negative cable.
STRUT BRACKET TO BODY GROUND STRAP
(1) Install strap to frame rail.
(2) Install strap and bolt to strut. Tighten bolt to
12 N·m (105 in. lbs.).
(3) Connect battery negative cable.
more than 1 reason to do grounds correctly besides the system ;)
Report this post to a moderator
|
| 02-03-2011 05:21 PM |
| | |
|
| Author |
| Thread |
|
|
| | |
|
|
