Advice on components, and recomendations!

Hi everyone, my name is Doug, and I am a new member here. My wife bought me a stereo system for my truck for Christmas. I have not installed an audio system in my vehicle since I was a teen. Back then, it was just the stereo and a couple 6x9's in the rear deck and you were good to go. Anyway, I am the type of person that really likes to do some re-search before I buy things, but since this was a gift, I am kinda doing it backwards. I would like to give you guys some info, and get some feedback please on my setup. I have a 1997 Ford F-350 pickup that the system is going in, and it's a regular cab. Here is a list of the items my wife bought for me. First off I received a Kenwood KDC-MP225.Heres a link! http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=13635 Second, she got me four speakers. I was really proud of her when she decided on the speakers, because she bought ones that would fit in the factory locations. I am the type of guy that does not like to cut up my doors, and other areas of my truck to install speakers. She bought two of the speakers at one store, and the other two at a different location to get a better price. For the front speakers, she bought me a set of Pioneer TS-A1680R 4-way 6 1/2" speakers. These go in each door panel up high and towards the front. Heres a link! http://www.sjgreatdeals.com/piotsa1680r.html And for the rear speakers, she bought me a pair of Rockford Fosgate T1682C 2 way 6x8 to fit in the factory locations. Heres a link! http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/ez2rockford/ModelInfo/ModelInfo.asp?ItemKey=10063555&CategoryDesc=Power%20Coaxials Because she was limeted on funds, she did not buy me a sub-woofer, and the seperate amp to run it. Anyway, from the re-search she did, she said that since the front speakers are a four way speaker, that the rear speakers only needed to be a two way speaker. Is this good advice that she received? Also, are the components that she chose a good combination? I know the two different sets of speakers have different specs, so I don't know if that is counter-productive or not. I went ahead and installed the system already, and I have to say, that even though it lacks the sub woofer at this point, it sounds pretty good. It is leaps and bounds better than the factory system that was in it. I know I may be losing some quality by limeting myself to installing the speakers in the factory locations, but it looks alot more discreet and clean this way. I am not an audiophile, by any stretch of the iamgination, but I do enjoy listening to music any chance I get. My last question is, what would be a good sub-woofer to purchase, and a good external amp to power it. I am thinking the only location for the sub-woofer would be behind the seat. The bed is out of the question since I use that for hauling items from time to time. I would appreciate your comments, and thanks for reading my first post! Keizer

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Hey and welcome to the forums. The advice that she got was common. Generally, people will tell you that rear speakers are for fill and the front speakers are where your soundstage should come from. The speakers will be fine, imho, the only thing that you may start to see is the difference in the highs. Pioneer speakers have unique sounding higher notes, and the rf's will end up sounding a little softer. Anyways, since you're not putting the speakers on an amp, it won't matter that their specs are different. The pioneers probably get a little louder than the rf's which is what most people want in a front speaker.

What kind of sub and amp you choose will depend on what kind of music you play, what your budget is and what you're looking for in a sub. You'll probably want to get something 8 or 10", especially if it's behind the seat, because a 12 might get in the way if you're a tall person. Probably your best bet is to go down and listen to some at circuit city, or best buy, or a sound shop near you and pick one or two that you like and check here about them. If you know what you're interested in, some guys here may be able to suggest cheaper/better alternatives.

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 RE:

quote:

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Originally posted on 12-29-2004 by AcridSaint
Hey and welcome to the forums. The advice that she got was common. Generally, people will tell you that rear speakers are for fill and the front speakers are where your soundstage should come from. The speakers will be fine, imho, the only thing that you may start to see is the difference in the highs. Pioneer speakers have unique sounding higher notes, and the rf's will end up sounding a little softer. Anyways, since you're not putting the speakers on an amp, it won't matter that their specs are different. The pioneers probably get a little louder than the rf's which is what most people want in a front speaker.

What kind of sub and amp you choose will depend on what kind of music you play, what your budget is and what you're looking for in a sub. You'll probably want to get something 8 or 10", especially if it's behind the seat, because a 12 might get in the way if you're a tall person. Probably your best bet is to go down and listen to some at circuit city, or best buy, or a sound shop near you and pick one or two that you like and check here about them. If you know what you're interested in, some guys here may be able to suggest cheaper/better alternatives.

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 Update

Just an update, and hopefully some opinions. I did the online chat with a guy at Crutchfield about a sub-woofer recomendation. I really like their sales staff, they seem on the ball. Anyway, the guy told me that it would be best to go with two 8" subs instead of a single 10" sub, because the truck box enclosures for a 10" sub will not fit behind the seat if its all the way back. I have to agree on that part. I really can't afford giving up the leg room! With that said, he linked me to a list of componants that he thinks would work great. I would like to list them and see what you guys think. First, some sealed truck boxs, that fit 8" subs, and have a 7" bottom base that will fit behind my seat. Heres a link! http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3KMjORp4RUS/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?wm=fa&I=044T3508SE For the subs, he recommended Rockford Fosgate P28S4. Heres a link! http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=575P28S4 And for the Amp, he recommended the Rockford Fosgate Punch P3001 150W x 1 mono subwoofer amplifier Heres a link! http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=575P3001 He also set me up with the necessary wiring kit. I really wanted to go with a 10" sub, but am totally limeted on space for the truck boxs! Thanks for your help! Keizer

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Hey keizer, a quick note on the speakers, the rf's are probably quieter because of their sensitivity too. If you have a look at the boxes I'd bet you'll see that the pioneers are around 92 or 93db and the rf's are about 89-90. Basically that tells you that with the same wattage the speaker with the higher number *should* be louder.

The guys at crutchfield are great, and they sell some good stuff. You may be better off with an 8" like you said, but if you wanted to get creative you might fit a 10". I don't know how you are around the shop or if you have the time, but you could build your own enclosure for the sub and pretty much fit it how you like... make it taller or wider to make up for the depth.

If you get an 8", that rockford is a good one, they don't give you a whole lot of choices anyways lol. But, I have to say that amp might be a bit pricey. Those mono amps aren't really made to shine at 4ohm, so you aren't benefiting from it's full potential. I would suggest one of these:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zOVYIb4I10W/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=110&I=489AP400
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zOVYIb4I10W/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=110&I=218OCR252
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zOVYIb4I10W/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=110&I=575P2002

If you wanted to stick with rockford, I'd get the one at the bottom. It will give you a few extra watts (still within the recomended wattage for your sub) and save you a few dollars.

If you think you're up for making your own box, then I would go with this:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zOVYIb4I10W/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=67600&I=2062S10L5

It's a really decent sale they've got going right now, but as you can see, it's a 10" and it's not exactly... round.

This amp will push that sub nicely and not break the bank:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-zOVYIb4I10W/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=130&I=489CA600M

All in all, I'd say that what they recomended will make you happy, just don't get that amp. Even if you're thinking of upgrading later, I wouldn't see that amp as a great choice. Those boxes aren't all bad, but if you play one side by side with a decent homebuilt you'll know why people here don't like them. It's some pretty straight-forward math and a few cuts if you want to do it, and the guys here will likely help you along the way.

I think if you fish around the forums a bit you can find lessismore's referal code and save 20 bucks too. Hope that helps.

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I don't have a problem at all building my own truck box. I work in construction, so I have alot of experience with building things. I also have a shop full of just about every commercial style hand tool that one would need. If I went with your recommended square sub-woofer and amp, where would I begin, as far as a box design. I have 7" to play with at the base, and the seat angles slightly back from there! Also, I am not sure what you mean when you say that "Those mono amps aren't really made to shine at 4ohm, so you aren't benefiting from it's full potential". Keizer

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Well, that sub does require a bit more space, so I think you would end up with something in the following dimensions:
Width: 24" Height: 14" Bottom: 7" Top: 4 1/4"

With those dimensions, I don't think you'll have any trouble with the angle of the seat, but your box will be 2' wide. That will give you .67 cubic feet, the min. recomended is .66

Those figures are assuming you use 3/4" mdf. You could use 5/8" mdf and get it decent amount smaller. I would definately recomend 3/4" if you can fit it, because you will reduce the chance of your box flexing and changing the sound.

This page can help you out if you want to play with the numbers:

http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm

It's nice because he has a calculator for triangle boxes like yours. Check about 1/3 of the way down the page for the triangle box calc.

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Will that square sub be too tall to fit in that box with those dimensions? I am talking about the 7", and 4" thickness of the box. Is the goal when building your own box, to try and get the internal cubic feet as close to the listed requirement for the sub? I notice on the crutchfield site, that when they list a compatible truck box, its usually larger than what is needed. Also, if the sub is in a sealed box, and the back of my truck seat will basically be sitting against the grill of the sub, will there be any heat issues? Thanks Keizer

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Good call on the mounting depth, I didn't even check it. The sub has a topmount depth of 5 5/8" so it wouldn't fit in my dimensions. As far as heat is concerned, you can generally handle more watts the smaller the box is. The sub is moving a lot of air at that kind of wattage, even if there isn't much room for it.

The goal with any box is to closely match the internal volume to whatever the manufacturer recomends, because those are the tested "optimum" sizes. Anywhere in the range that kicker listed would give you good performance with that sub. Larger won't hurt your sub, only its performance. The reason the crutchfield boxes are bigger is because they are sort of "one size fits all" deals, and they don't want to leave anyone out. The reason I went to the smallest is because of your space situation.

Sorry I didn't account for the sub depth, sometimes I think a little ahead of myself. I guess 1 or 2 8's will be your best bet. Though I would still make my own box if I were you. I remember you asked before if 2 8's are better than 1 10, and that is true for the most part. You can move more air with two 8's because of the surface area of the cone, so if you went with two you would probably be quite pleased.

If you go with two instead of one check out these amps:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Gp52ph6Gi6H/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=130&I=489CA600M
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Gp52ph6Gi6H/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=130&I=500MRPM350

They are both good amps, the alpine is obviously a bit nicer. The first one is rated at 20w higher than your subs, but it's not very likely to put out that rating on a stock alternator. Profile overrates their amps a little, but they are still solid amps and worth the money. Anyways, you can't beat a 3 year warranty.

Again, I am sorry for getting you excited about a 10" sub, and glad you checked the depth!

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Hey don't apoligize, you have helped me quite a bit, and have given me alot of things to think about. Before I worked in construction, I worked as a journey level machinist. Staying a few steps ahead on a project always kept it out of the scrap bin! So on the amp you suggest here http://www.crutchfield.com/S-OPDhactKQb8/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=130&I=489CA600M Even though it is rated 20 watts higher, that won't damage the two subs connected to it? Looking at the specs of the amp, I would assume you would probably do some damage if you only hooked up one of those 8" subs correct? The wattage output on the amp for one sub is 300 watts, and the sub-woofer itself is rated at 50-200 watts. Am I thinking correctly here? By the way, can you explain in more detail why you would not buy that RF that crutvhfield recommended. I am not real educated on matching the amp with the subs! Thanks Keizer

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You're right about that amp. It wouldn't be good to run it with just one of those 8's. You could hook it up and not damage the sub if you kept the volume down, but if you ran it full blast it probably wouldn't be good for the sub. It's actually a bit on the borderline, because as I said before that amp is probably a little overrated, additionally your subs are a little underrated. It could work without damaging it, but I usually try to stay +/- 10w on the rms ratings.

As far as two 8's are concerned, that amp will be no problem. They can probably each handle 225-250w rms since they are decent quality subs. Usually higher end amps will be slightly underrated, even the old rf amps. So this is something rf takes into account when they list their sub ratings. If you think of volume as watts, you can see that by simply not cranking the stereo to the max will keep the subs from ever seeing all of the power potential you have anyways. If you're worried about overpowering them, then just keep it down a notch or two, although I wouldn't worry about it.

As far as that rockford amp goes, I don't think there is anything wrong with it, but there are two reasons I wouldn't buy it. The first is that their amp quality has gone down over the years and you're basically buying a name now, instead of a solid amp. Second, it's just too much money. If you're worried about overpowering your subs with that bigger amp, or you're worried that you're not getting a quality name, definately get the alpine. It is, imho, a much better amp than the rockford. It puts out more power (still within your range) at a lower price, and it's built better too. Alpine is a well known name, and I've owned a lot of their products. I can't think of anyone I know that's been unhappy with an alpine product they've bought.

When you wire up your subs you'll want to wire them in parallel. That site www.bcae1.com has some really good pages on wiring subs, if you've worked with electronics before, even with things like batteries, it will be second nature. If not, you'll still be able to manage without a hitch if you read the page all the way through. If you end up wired in series, nothing bad will happen, you'll just draw a lot less power from the amp. Basically, after you hook everything up, turn on the radio and turn up the volume slowly, if something doesn't sound right, turn it off and check the wires. I know it sounds like common sense, but sometime we don't like to think we did things wrong, so it's not something that gets checked first off.

If they don't give you an amp kit with your order, get one of the $25 ones at wal-mart. They are good kits at a decent price. 300-400 watts can draw a good amount of current, enough to do some damage to your truck, so I'd definately do it right and get the kit. Put the fuse close to your battery, if it blows you're worried about your truck not the amp, I hope. Anyways, your amp has it's own fuse, so hopefully it will be protected.

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Thanks again for the reply! Ok, heres what I ordered. I purchased the two Rockford Fosgate P28S4 Punch Stage 2 8" 4-ohm component subwoofers. I then took your advice and purchased the Profile California CA600M amp. I liked the price, and I too think it will work just fine. When I placed the order at Crutchfield, the sales person said that the Profile California CA600M is almost a perfect amp for running those two 8" subs. Confirming exactly what you said. As far as the wiring kit, I purchased the one that popped up as compatible for that amp. I got the EFX 800-Watt Amp Wiring Kit 4-gauge power cable, with Patch Cord. Heres a link! http://www.crutchfield.com/S-8u6j44T0Ua0/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?wm=fa&I=142AKPA14. And I also bought some recommended 13 guage speaker wire. I hope that is satisfactory for my setup. I had forgot to ask about what guage speaker wire to use, so I went off Crutchfields suggestion during the order. And lastly, I went ahead and bought the two truck boxs that I link to earlier. They have the needed 7" base to fit behind my truck seat. I still may try building one to compare.....we will see. The clincher on the truck boxs was that they were 10% off, so they were cheaper than I thought. The amp is also 10% off right now. But not the subs! Keizer

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Good luck with the setup, I think it will make you happy. 13ga wire is just fine for those subs, and that amp kit will work great too.

If you get a chance at making the box, you should try it out and post your results, another persons feedback can't hurt.

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I will for sure post back my results of my setup, and if I build my own boxs. I will have to wait and see if I am happy with the sound from the Crutchfield boxs first. The only thing I noticed on the wiring kit that was recommended for that amp, is that it comes with a 4 gyage power lead, and an 8 guage ground lead. The amp says it requires 4 guage on both leads. Any thoughts on that? Thanks Keizer

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8ga is ok up to about 500w rms. It's a little better in your case since you're not running wires all the way to the trunk. The longer your wire is, the more chance you have for voltage drop. I wouldn't worry about it since you're in the 300-400w range and you'll have a short cable.

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