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Message Forums Car Stereo Message Forums > Amplifiers > Amps and Sound
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VladTepes
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 Amps and Sound

I know this is a very, very old and touched topic, and that everyone agrees that no difference in sound can be noticed between amps, but I just saw a couple of days ago in the Car Audio and Electronics magazine (don´t remember if it was this month´s or last´s), that some high end amps were tested and differences in sound were actually noticed, just wanna know what u think about.

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New Post 08-04-2005 02:28 AM
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VladTepes
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I also read that, for example, the TRU tube amp had effect also in a better soundstage, but it was also said in the report that the differences were quite slight...

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New Post 08-04-2005 02:43 AM
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FitzyG
Member

 RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-04-2005 by PowerAcoustikman
Tru amps are killer, I have only seen a few. Man they are way underated, most of the amps perform 300-400watts rms over rated power, when pushed. Expensive yes, but if your an enthusiast with money buy them or Zapco. Hey vlad I sent you a pm.

the tru amp in the test he was referring to was about 25% overrated. just food for thought.. and the point behind the "amps don't have sq" argument is that the difference is so miniscule(sp?) between different high-quality amps that it's not worth it to pay the difference. You think those guys would rate those amps the exact same way 24 times in a row? Me thinks not, making the $$ difference not worth it.

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New Post 08-04-2005 01:58 PM
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squeak9798
Member

 

First, separate myth from facts; proven from unproven.

Yes, amps can sound different. Easy to prove. Take two identical amplifiers, push one into extreme clipping and play the other within it's linear limits. BAM!! Proven that two amps can sound different.

Now, the real question isn't do all amps sound the same? The question is; What causes (or could cause) amps to sound different? Simple, proven things like frequency response, THD, ungodly low damping factor, ungodly low slew rate, power output differences, etc etc are known to make two amps sound different.

Now; here is where the differences between the two schools of thought come in; If we equalize all the known variables that make amps sound different, will they STILL sound different? This is what has YET to be proven to be true. I remember reading that article and they mention some BS about how the different quality caps can affect the soundstaging. Total BS right there, and RC's amp challenge clearly disproves it as he still has his $10k.

Over on carsound there is a nice thread about how this test was anything but a valid comparison and that basically their results are invalid and inconclusive, as they conducted it completely wrong:

http://www.carsound.com/UBB/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=010099 - Mind you, it's mostly electrical engineers and people actually in the industry in one way or another posting in that thread. Werewolf, for example, is honest to goodness probably one of the smartest, if not THE smartest individual on any of the forums.

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New Post 08-04-2005 02:02 PM
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squeak9798
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PS: About the known variable thing (like frequency response, THD, etc).....if you have an amp that has frequency response anamolies, or a high enough THD that it's clearly audible and causes a drastic sound quality difference from one amp to the other.....then you need to throw that amp away, because it is damaged.

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New Post 08-04-2005 02:08 PM
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VladTepes
Member

 RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-04-2005 by FitzyG
the tru amp in the test he was referring to was about 25% overrated. just food for thought.. and the point behind the "amps don't have sq" argument is that the difference is so miniscule(sp?) between different high-quality amps that it's not worth it to pay the difference. You think those guys would rate those amps the exact same way 24 times in a row? Me thinks not, making the $$ difference not worth it.

I know it is not QUITE SIGNIFICANT a difference, but it was told to be some a little noticeable differences, but, well... I also think the big money difference aint worth it.

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New Post 08-04-2005 02:15 PM
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grenaldo
Member

 

In car audio, you get what you pay for. Entry level equipment and high end equipment have drastic differences in design, sound qualtity and dependability whether the rated rms output is the same or not.

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New Post 08-05-2005 12:31 AM
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grenaldo
Member

 RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-04-2005 by PowerAcoustikman
Tru amps are killer, I have only seen a few. Man they are way underated, most of the amps perform 300-400watts rms over rated power, when pushed. Expensive yes, but if your an enthusiast with money buy them or Zapco. Hey vlad I sent you a pm.

In truth, the best amps out there are not underated at all. The rms output rating is quite accurate. However, the cheaper entry level amplifiers are overated.

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New Post 08-05-2005 12:38 AM
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FitzyG
Member

 RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-05-2005 by grenaldo
In truth, the best amps out there are not underated at all. The rms output rating is quite accurate. However, the cheaper entry level amplifiers are overated.

who are the "best amps out there" that aren't underrated...

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New Post 08-05-2005 01:04 AM
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grenaldo
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 RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-05-2005 by grenaldo
In truth, the best amps out there are not underated at all. The rms output rating is quite accurate. However, the cheaper entry level amplifiers are overated.

Luxman,Zapco,McIntosh Laboratories, CD Technologies, Audax, a/d/s, Rockford Fosgate (back in the 80s and early 90s) and Digital Designs (just to name a few) are not at all overated. They are very accurate in their specs. I don't know how much experience you have with their product, but I can tell you first hand that these are very nice amps. Other brands such as Power Acoustik, Legacy, Boss, Sony, Sherwood, SPL Audio, Rockwood and Lanzar (again, just to name a few) use things like looks and impresive overated specifications to sell their product but they are in fact low current and VERY low in quality.

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New Post 08-05-2005 01:45 AM
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FitzyG
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 RE: RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-05-2005 by grenaldo
Luxman,Zapco,McIntosh Laboratories, CD Technologies, Audax, a/d/s, Rockford Fosgate (back in the 80s and early 90s) and Digital Designs (just to name a few) are not at all overated. They are very accurate in their specs. I don't know how much experience you have with their product, but I can tell you first hand that these are very nice amps. Other brands such as Power Acoustik, Legacy, Boss, Sony, Sherwood, SPL Audio, Rockwood and Lanzar (again, just to name a few) use things like looks and impresive overated specifications to sell their product but they are in fact low current and VERY low in quality.

well, first off, lanzar is not "VERY low in quality". Second, although I'm somewhat familiar with zapco and mcintosh, I'm not familiar enough to rattle off specs off the top of my head. However, RF still makes great amps, and many old ones were serious cheaters and the new ones are very underrated (i.e. 3000 watt rating producting 3950 watts). I'd take a conservatively rated amp over an amp that's rated right at its power level any day of the week (diamond anyone??)

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New Post 08-05-2005 01:54 AM
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grenaldo
Member

 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-05-2005 by FitzyG
well, first off, lanzar is not "VERY low in quality". Second, although I'm somewhat familiar with zapco and mcintosh, I'm not familiar enough to rattle off specs off the top of my head. However, RF still makes great amps, and many old ones were serious cheaters and the new ones are very underrated (i.e. 3000 watt rating producting 3950 watts). I'd take a conservatively rated amp over an amp that's rated right at its power level any day of the week (diamond anyone??)

Lanzar is a company that focuses their attention on mass appeal and net sales as opposed to quality product. That does not mean that one could not install a Lanzar amp and make their system "bump". But that does mean that their equipment is based on looks and impressive specs. Rockford Fosgate's new equipment is comperable with Lanzar. Questionable at best. Yes, it can make a system "bump", but, you will never attain GOOD sq out of either one as they are low current amps.

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New Post 08-05-2005 02:25 AM
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FitzyG
Member

 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-05-2005 by grenaldo
Lanzar is a company that focuses their attention on mass appeal and net sales as opposed to quality product. That does not mean that one could not install a Lanzar amp and make their system "bump". But that does mean that their equipment is based on looks and impressive specs. Rockford Fosgate's new equipment is comperable with Lanzar. Questionable at best. Yes, it can make a system "bump", but, you will never attain GOOD sq out of either one as they are low current amps.

where the hell do you get your info?? seriously.. your posts so far have been rediculous...

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New Post 08-05-2005 02:29 AM
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squeak9798
Member

 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-05-2005 by grenaldo
Lanzar is a company that focuses their attention on mass appeal and net sales as opposed to quality product. That does not mean that one could not install a Lanzar amp and make their system "bump". But that does mean that their equipment is based on looks and impressive specs. Rockford Fosgate's new equipment is comperable with Lanzar. Questionable at best. Yes, it can make a system "bump", but, you will never attain GOOD sq out of either one as they are low current amps.

FYI: All of Lanzar's products output rated power. And yes, good SQ is possible. Again, go read up on ohm's law and speaker basics before you make such claims, as you obviously have ZERO clue what you are talking about.

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New Post 08-05-2005 12:23 PM
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pksimon28
Member

 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 08-05-2005 by PowerAcoustikman
LOL Lanzer is low end and will stay there. Not all of them put out rated power. Usually only the Opti's do, I have tested plenty at my local store Smith Audio and Video.

Ohh, so know the optis produce rated power? I thought you said early that nothing Lanzar (yes it is not spelled Lanzer) made rated power?

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New Post 08-05-2005 03:49 PM
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