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Message Forums Car Stereo Message Forums > > Battery
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VDJrx37x
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 Battery

Ight so for car batteries. if i buy one for my system what the fuck do i hook it up to the other car battery like im clueless for what to do?

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New Post 05-20-2007 10:30 PM
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hispls
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Hook up + from one to + from the other. Hook up - from the second to a good solid ground as close to the battery as possible. While you're at it do a "big 3" upgrade (use the search function in the forum and you'll find the link)

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New Post 05-20-2007 10:50 PM
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joshwill0001
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 Isolator

I would also recommend using an isolator or relay...they connect inbetween the two batteries and stop the second battery draining the first. When you turn the car on the isolator will allow boht batteries to be charged by alternator. When you turn the car off it will "isolate" the batteries from each other. Saves you having to jump start your car when you run your stereo too long :)

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New Post 05-21-2007 12:14 AM
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sqliberty
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Why 2 batteries?

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New Post 05-21-2007 02:57 PM
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hispls
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 RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 05-21-2007 by sqliberty
Why 2 batteries?

To provide more power to multiple high power amps. Typically a deep cycle battery or three is cheaper than a high output alternator.

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New Post 05-21-2007 03:30 PM
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sqliberty
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 RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 05-21-2007 by hispls
To provide more power to multiple high power amps. Typically a deep cycle battery or three is cheaper than a high output alternator.

If the charging system is not up to par it does not matter how many batteries you put in, they won't charge well enough. What kind of power are we talking about here?

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New Post 05-21-2007 04:18 PM
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hispls
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 RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 05-21-2007 by sqliberty
If the charging system is not up to par it does not matter how many batteries you put in, they won't charge well enough. What kind of power are we talking about here?

Considering a typical battery charger for the home is a really low current trickle charge, and even with the engine off, you'll get some output out of the batteries until they discharge, I'd say if your charging system would have to be really pathetic to not keep a decent charge on some batteries. Mine stays strong for as long as I can stand listening to it at high power levels.

I usually start adding batteries after about 1500 watts. Anything less, a big 3 upgrade and possibly a cap is sufficient in most cars.

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New Post 05-21-2007 04:52 PM
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sqliberty
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I run 2200 Watts RMS (all Alpine so no B.S. peak power ratings) in my Civic. 1 Kinetic battery, 1 upgraded 130 Amp alternator, and Big 3 upgrade. I have no Capacitor, nor is a second Battery needed. My liberty install has 1400 Watts RMS also all Alpine. a Yellow Top Optima,and a stock 160 amp alternator and Big 3 upgrade, no second battery. In my opinion a second battery is really only needed for key off listening or if you are competeing in SPL and need the reserve to burp the system.

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New Post 05-21-2007 07:15 PM
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joshwill0001
Member

 RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 05-21-2007 by sqliberty
I run 2200 Watts RMS (all Alpine so no B.S. peak power ratings) in my Civic. 1 Kinetic battery, 1 upgraded 130 Amp alternator, and Big 3 upgrade. I have no Capacitor, nor is a second Battery needed. My liberty install has 1400 Watts RMS also all Alpine. a Yellow Top Optima,and a stock 160 amp alternator and Big 3 upgrade, no second battery. In my opinion a second battery is really only needed for key off listening or if you are competeing in SPL and need the reserve to burp the system.

I agree second battery is good for key off listening and SPL. Also agree capacitors are eye candy only...however for those power ratings the calculator on the Kinetik website will tell you to use a second battery. I have seen calcualtions proving that a cap will add nothing...perhaps someone brainy could do the same for a second battery? I would have thought as hispls says that a second battery will supply a larger reserve of power for high output 1500RMS plus...if the alt cant keep up the battery has to chip in and if there are two batteries they will have more reserves to chip in with??? Is this along the right line or cr@p?

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New Post 05-22-2007 03:13 AM
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sqliberty
Member

 RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 05-22-2007 by joshwill0001
I agree second battery is good for key off listening and SPL. Also agree capacitors are eye candy only...however for those power ratings the calculator on the Kinetik website will tell you to use a second battery. I have seen calcualtions proving that a cap will add nothing...perhaps someone brainy could do the same for a second battery? I would have thought as hispls says that a second battery will supply a larger reserve of power for high output 1500RMS plus...if the alt cant keep up the battery has to chip in and if there are two batteries they will have more reserves to chip in with??? Is this along the right line or cr@p?

If the alternator is not charging correctly the batteries will not get the reserve and it can be a strain on the entire electrical system. This is from www.bcae1.com Upgrading Your Charging System Alternators: As we said on the charging system basics page, the alternator supplies all of the power to all of the electrical accessories (amplifiers, lights, power windows, power seats...) as long as the engine is running. Upgrading the alternator is generally the most cost effective way to add more performance to your system. In the next few paragraphs I'll attempt to explain why other remedies may not solve your problem and may even make it worse. Many people want to know when they should replace their alternator. The short answer is... when it fails. If you just want the battery to remain charged and your present alternator is keeping it charged, it's doing its job. If you want a system to be as close to perfect as possible and money is no object, replace your alternator when you install the amplifiers. Extra batteries: Extra batteries are great if you want to listen to your system with the engine off. While the alternator is charging, the extra batteries will only draw current which could otherwise be going to your amplifiers. For proof, all you have to do is measure the voltage while the engine is running. It should be approximately 13.5-14.4 volts DC. Then turn the engine off and measure the battery voltage again. Now it'll be around 12-12.5 volts. Whenever the voltage at the battery is up around 14 volts, there is current flowing into the battery. One Farad capacitors: Large, one Farad, capacitors only help to maintain the charging voltage for a tiny fraction of a second under high current demand situations. They do a fine job of filling small dips in voltage and may help reduce your lights from dimming but they won't really solve your current supply problems if your alternator can't keep up. NOTE: Capacitors DO NOT increase the charging system's voltage. Battery Isolators: Battery isolators only prevent draining your starting battery when playing your system with the engine off. Most of the time they will actually rob power from your system. Diode type isolators will usually have a small voltage drop across the diodes (approximately .4 - .7 volts). This loss of voltage will dissipate power in the form of heat and unless you're freezing to death, it doesn't help matters. Solenoid type isolators don't have as much voltage loss as the diode based isolators but the solenoid coil does pull current. Some coils may pull as much as 3 amps of current. Now 3 amps of current isn't much but if you're using 2 solenoids and you're already having trouble with a weak alternator, it'll just add to your problem.

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New Post 05-22-2007 05:07 AM
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audiolife
Member

 RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 05-22-2007 by sqliberty
If the alternator is not charging correctly the batteries will not get the reserve and it can be a strain on the entire electrical system. This is from www.bcae1.com Upgrading Your Charging System Alternators: As we said on the charging system basics page, the alternator supplies all of the power to all of the electrical accessories (amplifiers, lights, power windows, power seats...) as long as the engine is running. Upgrading the alternator is generally the most cost effective way to add more performance to your system. In the next few paragraphs I'll attempt to explain why other remedies may not solve your problem and may even make it worse. Many people want to know when they should replace their alternator. The short answer is... when it fails. If you just want the battery to remain charged and your present alternator is keeping it charged, it's doing its job. If you want a system to be as close to perfect as possible and money is no object, replace your alternator when you install the amplifiers. Extra batteries: Extra batteries are great if you want to listen to your system with the engine off. While the alternator is charging, the extra batteries will only draw current which could otherwise be going to your amplifiers. For proof, all you have to do is measure the voltage while the engine is running. It should be approximately 13.5-14.4 volts DC. Then turn the engine off and measure the battery voltage again. Now it'll be around 12-12.5 volts. Whenever the voltage at the battery is up around 14 volts, there is current flowing into the battery. One Farad capacitors: Large, one Farad, capacitors only help to maintain the charging voltage for a tiny fraction of a second under high current demand situations. They do a fine job of filling small dips in voltage and may help reduce your lights from dimming but they won't really solve your current supply problems if your alternator can't keep up. NOTE: Capacitors DO NOT increase the charging system's voltage. Battery Isolators: Battery isolators only prevent draining your starting battery when playing your system with the engine off. Most of the time they will actually rob power from your system. Diode type isolators will usually have a small voltage drop across the diodes (approximately .4 - .7 volts). This loss of voltage will dissipate power in the form of heat and unless you're freezing to death, it doesn't help matters. Solenoid type isolators don't have as much voltage loss as the diode based isolators but the solenoid coil does pull current. Some coils may pull as much as 3 amps of current. Now 3 amps of current isn't much but if you're using 2 solenoids and you're already having trouble with a weak alternator, it'll just add to your problem.

only thing is an alt is not putting out 100% power all the time. it is load and rpm dependant. your audio system doesnt have anything close to a constant power draw unless you listen to test tones, but when you listen to something with heavy bass during that time your amps could be doing rated power. at times of low rpm (idle,low speed) you could very well be dropping below 12.8 v in which from that point the battery (your kinetik should be anyway) helping with the current. (my 1400 never rests below 12.8v and is usually 12.9-13v).depending on your alt and pully your alt at idle usually only does 45-60% rated power.130 amp alt at idle is probably only around 70 amps and a 160 is probably no more than 100 amps at that speed (depending on the alt pully). if you have a real 2200 watt system doing anywhere close to its rated power even at peaks it will have a dip in voltage. back in the day (91-93) i had a system that was 1700++ watts all ppi am series A/B class amps. it was in a 84 1/2 ford escort with a 90 amp alt. ran 2 extra old school marine deep cycles (this was before optima was avalible/known in my area) sure my lights would dim but my amps didnt over heat (amp out due to low voltage) when i ran 1 extra battery the sub amps would go into protect. i eventually had a 120 amp dual output alt installed that helped out even more.the original set up though i will admit i couldnt crank it up much more than 1/4 to half the time i listened to it/drove it but the extra batteries did help (biggest alt we could get back then iirc is 160 amp). thing is nothing you will listen too (unless its a test tone) will be constant power consumption wise, your alt at idle is only able to do a certain percentage of its maximum current at idle and low rpm. also the electrical system doesnt put out 100% current at full speed it will put out only what it needs and react if it needs more.

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New Post 05-24-2007 01:37 AM
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sqliberty
Member

 RE: RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 05-24-2007 by audiolife
only thing is an alt is not putting out 100% power all the time. it is load and rpm dependant. your audio system doesnt have anything close to a constant power draw unless you listen to test tones, but when you listen to something with heavy bass during that time your amps could be doing rated power. at times of low rpm (idle,low speed) you could very well be dropping below 12.8 v in which from that point the battery (your kinetik should be anyway) helping with the current. (my 1400 never rests below 12.8v and is usually 12.9-13v).depending on your alt and pully your alt at idle usually only does 45-60% rated power.130 amp alt at idle is probably only around 70 amps and a 160 is probably no more than 100 amps at that speed (depending on the alt pully). if you have a real 2200 watt system doing anywhere close to its rated power even at peaks it will have a dip in voltage. back in the day (91-93) i had a system that was 1700++ watts all ppi am series A/B class amps. it was in a 84 1/2 ford escort with a 90 amp alt. ran 2 extra old school marine deep cycles (this was before optima was avalible/known in my area) sure my lights would dim but my amps didnt over heat (amp out due to low voltage) when i ran 1 extra battery the sub amps would go into protect. i eventually had a 120 amp dual output alt installed that helped out even more.the original set up though i will admit i couldnt crank it up much more than 1/4 to half the time i listened to it/drove it but the extra batteries did help (biggest alt we could get back then iirc is 160 amp). thing is nothing you will listen too (unless its a test tone) will be constant power consumption wise, your alt at idle is only able to do a certain percentage of its maximum current at idle and low rpm. also the electrical system doesnt put out 100% current at full speed it will put out only what it needs and react if it needs more.

I am running all Alpine PDX in my 2200 watt system which may make a big difference as well as far as efficiency.

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New Post 05-24-2007 08:53 AM
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audiolife
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 RE: RE: RE: RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 05-24-2007 by sqliberty
I am running all Alpine PDX in my 2200 watt system which may make a big difference as well as far as efficiency.

even if it were 100% at 14v 2200 watts is 157 amps.

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New Post 05-24-2007 12:35 PM
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