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Pioneer~Saturn
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 Comp rules / my setup

Hey guys, ive emailed MECA guys along with DB Drag guys and both are skeptical on the classing of my car...mostly because of the slight metal cutting in the rear deck and the fiberglassing (full-fiberglass dash and possibly other parts aswell)...so im just wondering your opinion on classing of it and which comps i should attend that was wondering if there are classes that i could be in  like single-sub categories that i could fair better in. Thanks

Heres the setup:

Dual Alternator Setup: 250 amp alt + Stock alt

Sub: 18" Fi BTL

Sub Amp: SoundStream XXX10000

Dash Area: 1 pair 6.5" Pioneer Components + 1 pair 5.25" Pioneer Components + 1 pair 8" Pioneer Shallow Mounts....all in a fiberglass dash painted same as car

Also another pair of the 6.5" Pioneer components upfront in the door locations aswell as another pair of the 5.25" Pioneer components in the rear

Other Amps: (2) Pioneer GM-6300 + (1) GM-7300

Batteries: Probably 4 Kinetik HC1400's (or maybe 1800's) + A Kinetik HC1400 under the hood....along with (potentially) 2 BatCap 400's inline with the SoundStream XXX10000 from the battery bank

All trunk setup....foamed and dynamat xtreme'd trunk lid....slightly cut rear deck...may be able to take sheet metal and return to original condition...

 

So i guess dicifer that and let me know what you think i should be running in. This will be my first true comp-worthy setup...so i am a bit lost on the categories...

Thanks in advance

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New Post 01-08-2008 01:19 PM
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PeteS
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What do you mean fiberglass dash.....just pods of the whole thing.

Thats what is going to be the BIG factor. In Db drag your out of street class. Might have a chance of Street max...but most likely Super Street. The only thing is teh dash MIGHT DQ you From SS and put you ibn extreme BUT then you will also need modded door panels'.

 

We need pics and MORE info.

 

As far as meca your going to be in MX clas at leats once again it's the dash, But now it's also the wholes in the rar deck.

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New Post 01-08-2008 10:18 PM
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Pioneer~Saturn
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Yea, i mean the entire top of the dash is going to be fiberglassed. And what do you mean about the moded doors?

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New Post 01-09-2008 10:50 AM
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tjsaudio
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 RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 01-09-2008 by Pioneer~Saturn

Yea, i mean the entire top of the dash is going to be fiberglassed. And what do you mean about the moded doors?



dB Drags Rules.

 

The extent to which modifications to the passenger compartment are allowed is limited by the division a competitor is competing in. (See Section 2 entitled, "Competitor Classification System" earlier in this rulebook for a complete listing of competition divisions and classes.)

Additional Guidelines:

  • For clarification purposes, the dBDRA uses the term "modification" to describe changes to the vehicle that have been made in order to accommodate the sound system or to improve the competitor's score.

    Some examples of passenger compartment modifications include:

    • Replacing the OEM glass
    • Replacing the OEM dashboard
    • Replacing the OEM seats
    • Reinforcing the door panels
    • Floor build-ups and roof build-downs
    • Removing or replacing the OEM center console

A Special Note on Equivalent Replacements:

  • There are several areas in the rulebook where the term "equivalent replacement" is used. The dBDRA considers an equivalent replacement to be a replacement that closely resembles the OEM product it replaces in both form and function. This includes structural rigidity, cosmetics, and size.

    Example:

    If a competitor is replacing the door panel on a vehicle, it would be acceptable for the replacement to be made of 1/8-inch (3.175 mm) thick fiber board covered with upholstery material, since the structural rigidity, cosmetics, and size of the replacement panel are similar to those of the original panel. On the other hand, a replacement panel made from 1-inch (2.54 cm) thick MDF would not be permissible because the structural rigidity of the replacement panel is different from that of the original. Please note that in this example it is not the thickness of the replacing material that dictates what is or is not acceptable. Rather, it is the similarity of the structural rigidity that was used as the metric.

Street Division Passenger Compartment Restrictions
3-8a Modifications to the passenger compartment are prohibited.

Additional Guidelines:

  • The OEM headliner (or an equivalent replacement) must remain in place. Grille cloth, box carpet, etc. may not be attached directly to the sheet metal of the roof in lieu of the headliner.
  • The OEM door panels (or an equivalent replacement) must remain in place.
  • The OEM carpeting (or an equivalent replacement) must remain in place.
  • Cut-throughs in pickup trucks are not permitted.
  • Sound damping materials may be used to reduce vibration when installed in accordance with the manufacturer's recommended installation instructions. The maximum total thickness of sound damping material applied at any given location may not exceed 5/32 inch (4mm). The sound damping application may consist of mat-type material, spray-on material, or a combination of the two. A maximum of 2 layers of mat-type material may be used at any given location, even if the total thickness of the sound damping material(s) is less than 5/32 inch (4mm).
  • Expanding foam may be used sparingly throughout the vehicle to seal small openings or reduce vibration, but may not be used to fill voids or other large cavities (such as the dashboard or doors).
Street Max Division Passenger Compartment Restrictions
3-9a Modifications to the passenger compartment from the B-Pillar forward are prohibited.

Additional Guidelines:

  • The OEM headliner (or an equivalent replacement) must remain in place for those areas in front of the B-Pillar.
  • The OEM door panels (or an equivalent replacement) must remain in place for those areas in front of the B-Pillar.
  • The OEM carpeting (or an equivalent replacement) must remain in place for those areas in front of the B-Pillar.
  • Sound damping materials may be used to reduce vibration when installed in accordance with the manufacturer's recommended installation instructions. The maximum total thickness of sound damping material applied at any given location may not exceed 5/32 inch (4mm). The sound damping application may consist of mat-type material, spray-on material, or a combination of the two. A maximum of 2 layers of mat-type material may be used at any given location, even if the total thickness of the sound damping material(s) is less than 5/32 inch (4mm).
  • Expanding foam may be used sparingly in front of the B-Pillar to seal small openings or reduce vibration, but may not be used to fill voids or other large cavities (such as the dashboard or doors).
3-9b The front seats in the vehicle may be folded during competition. The rear seats may be folded OR removed from the vehicle.

Super Street Division Passenger Compartment Restrictions
3-10a Modifications to the passenger compartment from the B-Pillar forward are prohibited.

Additional Guidelines:

  • The OEM headliner (or an equivalent replacement) must remain in place for those areas in front of the B-Pillar.
  • The OEM door panels (or an equivalent replacement) must remain in place for those areas in front of the B-Pillar.
  • The OEM carpeting (or an equivalent replacement) must remain in place for those areas in front of the B-Pillar.
  • Sound damping materials may be used to reduce vibration when installed in accordance with the manufacturer's recommended installation instructions. For those areas located in front of the B-Pillars, the maximum total thickness of sound damping material applied at any given location may not exceed 5/32 inch (4mm). The sound damping application may consist of mat-type material, spray-on material, or a combination of the two. A maximum of 2 layers of mat-type material may be used at any given location, even if the total thickness of the sound damping material(s) is less than 5/32 inch (4mm). For those areas located behind the B-Pillars, an unlimited amount of sound damping material(s) may be used.
  • Expanding foam may be used sparingly in front of the B-Pillars to seal small openings or reduce vibration, but may not be used to fill voids or other large cavities (such as the dashboard or doors). An unlimited amount of expanding foam may be used behind the B-Pillars.
3-10b Competitor's may fold or remove any of the seats in the vehicle.

Extreme Division Passenger Compartment Restrictions
The following restrictions outline what each competitor MUST do and what each competitor MAY do. All other modifications to the passenger compartment are prohibited.
3-11a Each vehicle MUST have a dash.

Additional Guidelines:

  • If the dash is an OEM dash, then no external modifications to the dash may be made. (Filling the dash with expanding foam or another material for structural reinforcement purposes and/or internal bracing is acceptable as long as no other applicable rules are violated.) Vehicles incorporating the OEM dash are exempt from the following guidelines with the exception of the final bullet point which discusses the relationship between the dash and the windshield.
  • The highest point of the top of the dash may not extend above the horizontal plane defined by the bottom of the windshield.
  • The lowest point of the top of the dash may not be located any lower than 3 inches (7.62 cm) below the horizontal plane defined by the bottom of the windshield.

    Dash to windshield measurement
  • The minimum depth of the dash at the center of the vehicle shall be 6 inches (15.24 cm) when measured from the edge of the dash to the windshield. The maximum depth shall be 16 inches (40.64 cm).

    Top view
  • The plane of the dash bounded in the front by the firewall, in the back by the trailing edge of the dash, and for a distance of 12 inches to the left and 12 inches to the right (measured horizontally) of the sensor placement location must be completely flat with respect to the ground.

    Front view
  • The dash must be completely solid (with no holes or perforations) and must extend front-to-back from the firewall to the trailing edge of the dash, and side-to-side from the windshield pillar on the driver's side to the windshield pillar on the passenger side.
  • The trailing edge of the dash (the edge of the dash that faces the passenger compartment) must be straight and perpendicular to the centerline of the vehicle when viewed from the top.
  • The relationship between the dash and the windshield shall be such that the sensor can be placed on the windshield and the proper distances from the sensor to the dash (4 inches or 10.16 cm) and the sensor to the windshield pillar (12 inches or 30.48 cm) can be achieved.
3-11b Each vehicle MAY have a center console.

Additional Guidelines:

  • The center console may not exceed the height of the lowest part of the top of the dash.
  • A minimum "open space" distance of 13 inches (33.02 cm) MUST be provided at ALL points between each side of the center console and each door. (Measured horizontally and perpendicular to the centerline of the vehicle.)
  • Center consoles must not interfere with the "String Test". Competitors may "notch" their consoles or make the console easily removable to comply with this requirement.
  • If no center console is present, then the 13 inches (33.02 cm) closest to each door will be treated as the open space area.
3-11c Competitors MAY construct a roof build-down if desired.

Additional Guidelines:

  • The build-down may not extend more than 3 inches (7.62 cm) below the top of the door jamb.
  • For those locations in front of the door (between the door and the windshield) and behind the door (between the door and the baffle board), the roof build-down may not extend more than 3 inches (7.62 cm) below the lowest part of the top of the door jamb. For doors with curved door openings, the reference point shall be defined as the intersection between two imaginary lines as shown in Figure 3-11c.
Figure 3-11c

Figure 3-11c - Intersecting Reference Point for curved door openings.
3-11d Competitors MAY construct floor build-ups.
3-11e Competitors MAY construct a removable or flip-down panel(s) to cover the OEM foot wells.

Additional Guidelines:

  • In the interest of safety, competitors are encouraged not to modify the vehicle's OEM foot pedals (accelerator pedal, brake pedal, clutch, and parking brake).
3-11f Competitors MUST maintain a minimum 30 inch (76.2 cm) vertical separation between the headliner (roof build-down) and the floor (floor build-up) at ALL locations within the passenger compartment except over the center console and the dash.

Additional Guidelines:

  • A 30-inch (76.2 cm) rod will be used to determine compliance. The judge will hold the rod vertically and move it around inside of the passenger compartment. If the rod's movement is impeded, then the vehicle fails compliance with this rule.
  • Bracing located outside of the "open space" area defined in section 3-11b shall not constitute an impediment to this test.
Figure 3-11f1

Figure 3-11f1 - In the above example, the top trailing edge of the dash defines the vertical plane that is used to establish the front-to-back Free Space area. (Note how the dash is NOT located completely beneath the OEM windshield location.) Not to Scale.

Figure 3-11f2

Figure 3-11f2 - In the above example, the OEM top windshield frame defines the vertical plane that is used to establish the front-to-back Free Space area. (Note how the dash is located completely beneath the OEM windshield location.) Not to Scale.

Figure 3-11f3

Figure 3-11f3 - In the above example, the top trailing edge of the dash defines the vertical plane that is used to establish the front-to-back Free Space area. This example also depicts how changes to the roof build-down and floor build-up can be made provided a minimum vertical distance of 30 inches is maintained. Not to Scale.

Figure 3-11f4

Figure 3-11f4 - In the above example, the OEM top windshield frame defines the vertical plane that is used to establish the front-to-back Free Space area. This example also depicts how changes to the roof build-down and floor build-up can be made provided a minimum vertical distance of 30 inches is maintained. Not to Scale.

Figure 3-11f5

Figure 3-11f5 - In the above example, the OEM top windshield frame defines the vertical plane that is used to establish the front-to-back Free Space area. Note the ramp that is used to transition from the trailing edge of the dash to the floor build-up. The "Rod Test" will be applied within the Free Space area bounded by the dashed lines. Not to Scale.

Figure 3-11f6

Figure 3-11f6 - In the above example, the top trailing edge of the dash defines the vertical plane that is used to establish the front-to-back Free Space area. Note the "ramp" that is used to transition from the trailing edge of the dash to the floor build-up. The "Rod Test" will be applied within the Free Space area bounded by the dashed lines. Not to Scale.
3-11g Competitors MAY build-out their door panels if desired.

Additional Guidelines:

  • The maximum distance the build-out may extend into the passenger compartment is 6 inches (15.24 cm). (Measured from the sheet metal of the door where the OEM door panel was originally attached.)
  • Cavities in doors are prohibited. (A cavity is a negative build-out that protrudes into the door's interior space.)
3-11h Competitors MAY install bracing if desired.

Additional Guidelines and Examples:

  • The maximum aggregate width for all bracing in front of the B-Pillars is 6 inches (15.24cm). (To determine compliance with this guideline, find the widest point on each of your braces. Next, add these maximum widths together. The total value must be 6 inches (15.24 cm) or less.)
  • The "open space" area defined in section 3-11b must remain free of bracing.
  • If the brace "Y's" into 2 or more arms, then the width of the brace shall be considered as either the sum of the widest point on each arm, or the maximum width of the single "leg", whichever is larger.

    Example 1: A competitor is using a single 4" x 4" brace from the roof to the floor. The widest dimension of the brace is 4 inches, so the competitor is in compliance.

    Example 2: A competitor is using a single 2" x 4" brace from the roof to the floor. The widest dimension of the brace is 4 inches, so the competitor is in compliance.

    Example 3: A competitor is using two 2" x 4" braces from the roof to the floor. The widest dimension on both braces is 4 inches. The maximum aggregate width for the competitor's braces is 4 + 4 = 8 inches, which is more than is allowable.

    Example 4: A competitor has a 2" x 2" brace from the dash to the ceiling, another 2" x 2" brace from the dash to the floor, and a 3rd 2" x 2" brace from the floor to the ceiling. The maximum aggregate width for the competitor's braces is 2 + 2 + 2 = 6 inches, so the competitor is in compliance.

    Example 5: A competitor is using two 3" diameter pipes from the floor to the ceiling. The widest dimension of each pipe is 3 inches. The maximum aggregate width for the competitor's braces is 3 + 3 = 6 inches, so the competitor is in compliance.

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New Post 01-09-2008 04:05 PM
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PeteS
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 RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 01-09-2008 by Pioneer~Saturn

Yea, i mean the entire top of the dash is going to be fiberglassed. And what do you mean about the moded doors?



NO fiber glass dash in Db drag, they consider it to be a streanther and could be used  to reflect the sound tward the meter.

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New Post 01-09-2008 08:53 PM
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Pioneer~Saturn
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Man, its gunna be hell trying to compete...i might replace the dash with a factory one for comps

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New Post 01-12-2008 11:04 AM
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tjsaudio
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That would be advisable.  if you want to be in a street class.  if not hello Extreme!

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Pioneer~Saturn
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^yea, i dont really want to compete in extreme...think id be in over my head

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New Post 01-13-2008 10:19 AM
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Pioneer~Saturn
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oh, and i cant be in street class cuz i have a dual-alternator setup :(

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Pioneer~Saturn
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Here's what im dealing with (dash-wise)

Photobucket

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New Post 01-13-2008 10:26 AM
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Pioneer~Saturn
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Photobucket

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New Post 01-13-2008 10:27 AM
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Pioneer~Saturn
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still alot of sanding to do...and then the 2 (or i might just go with 1) 8" in the center...then all painted to the exterior green with clear coat and all (might also be doing doors in the future this same way...which will make competition even harder...ugh

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New Post 01-13-2008 10:29 AM
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PeteS
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HOLLY work !!!!1 that will look good once tis done.

 

As far as comps Meca MIGHT let you run if it's painted but as far as Db drag I bet they give you a Dq. Go post that pic in the Db Drag rule forum and see what they say.

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Pioneer~Saturn
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Thanks, and yea i'll probably do that...or i might dress all the other panels up with fiberglass and make it more of a showcar that gets loud and kinda just run numbers on the side to see how loud it can get....i have a feeling its going to be a pain competing

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