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Message Forums Car Stereo Message Forums > Amplifiers > Sick and tired of know-it-alls
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newfosgatesucks
Senior Member

 Sick and tired of know-it-alls

FEd up with people saying online you can't overpower a sub.   Yes, in theory they are right, but in the real world they are wrong.  

   How often in the real world does a 900 watt amp put out 900 watts?  And wattage rating of a proper driver is based on heat dissipation at constant power - so you would have to be running cheap drivers and pump a sine wave for several minutes to even approach the heat handling of the driver. 

   Thermal capacity of the sub simply cannot be exceeded, but in the same breath a 300 watt sub will seldom see 300 watts out of a 300 watt amplifier.  

   Note to all those who just don't get it - take some time to think about how an amplifier is set up to the audio system before you say it isn't possible. 

   BTW I have a perfectly good set of 18's that have been connected to roughly 150 watts over their rated heat dissipation for many years, and were powered for many years before that with about 125% of their rating.  

   This is in reference to another forum, where an engineer would not accept the real world is different than a test lab!  

   So lets see some real world stuff here, and let this forum be about the real world!   Show me some pics!

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New Post 09-20-2011 09:34 AM
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KJM01
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I have run a 50hz @ 0db tone for over 4 min to a pair of jl12wx through a pos sony gtr2002, no problem, and arguing with an engineer is like fighting city hall, there is no point.Even if they are wrong they will never admit to it.Trust me my family is full of those know-it-all engineers.

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New Post 09-20-2011 03:23 PM
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N2Audio
Senior Member

 

I can tell you that 120v RMS on a 10 yr old 250w Pyramid is too much power.






I'm not exactly understanding your issue though.
you say you don't like know it alls claiming you can't over-power a sub, but then you argue in support of the same claim.

Obviously any sub CAN be overpowered to the point of damage. Case in point, ~1500w continuous AC was a tad too much for my 250w sub.
We've all seen, or at least heard of people with X watt amps (obviously clipped all to hell) damaging X watt subs.

But there's no argument for the fact that when playing music an amp only delivers a fraction of its rated (sine wave tested) power to the speaker, on average, even at full volume.

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New Post 09-22-2011 12:07 PM
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SINTORMAN
Senior Member

 

I have never ever heard anyone say you can't overpower a sub... wtf. Seriously even Daman will agree that you can overpower a sub. (hehe.. I had to :))

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New Post 09-22-2011 08:04 PM
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SINTORMAN
Senior Member

 RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 09-22-2011 by N2Audio
I can tell you that 120v RMS on a 10 yr old 250w Pyramid is too much power.






I'm not exactly understanding your issue though.
you say you don't like know it all claiming you can't over-power a sub, but then you argue in support of the same claim.

Obviously any sub CAN be overpowered to the point of damage. Case in point, ~1500w continuous AC was a tad too much for my 250w sub.
We've all seen, or at least heard of people with X watt amps (obviously clipped all to hell) damaging X watt subs.

But there's no argument for the fact that when playing music an amp only delivers a fraction of its rated (sine wave tested) power to the speaker, on average, even at full volume.


Dang. You should have had someone else plug it in. Missed quite a bit of the sub being torn appart :D. And while it is true that amps only put out a fraction of its rated... it is also true that most subwoofer companies also take that into account when rating their subs. 1000 watt rms amp feeding 1000 rms sub might actually be 300 watts to a 300 watt capacity. Alot of subs fed rated rms playing tones will burn up given enough time. Correct me if I am wrong.

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New Post 09-22-2011 08:09 PM
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N2Audio
Senior Member

 RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 09-22-2011 by SINTORMAN
Dang. You should have had someone else plug it in. Missed quite a bit of the sub being torn appart :D. And while it is true that amps only put out a fraction of its rated... it is also true that most subwoofer companies also take that into account when rating their subs. 1000 watt rms amp feeding 1000 rms sub might actually be 300 watts to a 300 watt capacity. Alot of subs fed rated rms playing tones will burn up given enough time. Correct me if I am wrong.

yeah, sorry.
It really wasn't much to see.
The surround was already decayed to the point of almost nothing, so there wasn't much holding it in place to start with. That pop was the sound of the cone shooting about 3 ft into the air, and the video caught the rest.

As far as ratings. I think some if not most of the high quality companies actually state continuous power. I know JL does. I would expect most of the high performance subs are that way too.

The more common brands -- Kicker, Pioneer etc, probably account for actual power.

I don't know though. I'm just drawing some logical conclusions.

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New Post 09-23-2011 11:57 AM
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newfosgatesucks
Senior Member

 

In some manuals you will see stated in the ratings the following :

300 watts continuous.

 

    And that means a 500 watt amp is a pretty good match.   but no, a 300 watt Pyle is a diff story!  

 

The debate I was referring to was in a Pro sound application where a set of 2x18 cabinets was rated as 1500 watts continuous.   A pair of 1800 watt amplifiers was used, one on each 2x18 cabinet. 

 

   Specs on the amplifiers were 1800 watts bridged. 

 

   A speaker rated for 1500 contin. heat dissipation, tested for 24 hrs to dissipate 1500 watts of heat, is more than capable of handling anything a properly set up 1800 watt amplifier can throw at it -  Especially considering the application, the 120 feet of speaker wire, and the fact that capture voltage on the power strip was about 6 volts low with everything else running.

 

  

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New Post 09-23-2011 01:31 PM
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N2Audio
Senior Member

 RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 09-23-2011 by newfosgatesucks

In some manuals you will see stated in the ratings the following :

300 watts continuous.

 

    And that means a 500 watt amp is a pretty good match.   but no, a 300 watt Pyle is a diff story!  

 

The debate I was referring to was in a Pro sound application where a set of 2x18 cabinets was rated as 1500 watts continuous.   A pair of 1800 watt amplifiers was used, one on each 2x18 cabinet. 

 

   Specs on the amplifiers were 1800 watts bridged. 

 

   A speaker rated for 1500 contin. heat dissipation, tested for 24 hrs to dissipate 1500 watts of heat, is more than capable of handling anything a properly set up 1800 watt amplifier can throw at it -  Especially considering the application, the 120 feet of speaker wire, and the fact that capture voltage on the power strip was about 6 volts low with everything else running.

 

  



based on your info it would be completely unjustified to think that's a death sentence for the 1500w speakers.

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New Post 09-23-2011 04:16 PM
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newfosgatesucks
Senior Member

 RE: RE:

quote:
Originally posted on 09-23-2011 by N2Audio
based on your info it would be completely unjustified to think that's a death sentence for the 1500w speakers.

Sad thing is they ran parallel each side of the amp-900 watts a side, 450 watts per cab!

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New Post 09-24-2011 03:13 AM
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